Leading and Learning


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As we get older, we begin not to trust our own instincts and we start trusting something because it sounds clever or more complex.


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Richard talks about his experience meeting Barry Barish the Nobel Prize winner for physics and that he asked him about how he went about recruiting the team of scientists who were working with him on gravitational waves what eventually led him to the Nobel Prize. Barry shared that something important to him was their ability to ask daft questions because the problem with so many scientists is they try and complicate everything and he knew the greatest lines of research they were engaged in would come from people who could ask questions that most scientists would laugh at.

Richard highlights an example of this from when he took over a school that had been in decline but noted that the nature of their meetings had always been about really complex concepts. This made teachers feel alienated and they lacked confidence in their own professional ability and instincts. Richard says he used a simple question in their first major faculty meeting, which resulted in catalyzing and extraordinary conversation. And actually some of the greatest learning that occurs in adult environments and learning businesses is deconstructing the myth of complexity and helping people understand that so much of how we need to think is based on our instinct and simplification, not on complexity.

What do you see as the relationship between change and learning? So much of our lives in our business environments feel reactive. Yet as we get older, increasingly everything becomes reactive.

But nobody is frightened of change when they feel in control of it. And the perception around learning starts to feel far more constructive with more people who will want to buy into it. And what a wonderful thinker and person to have influencing your life and career.

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What do you see as the role of mentors in adult lifelong learning? Is it something to look at systematizing or providing more of?

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One of the great challenges Richard sees in very traditional, hierarchical organizations is a belief that the people at the top should always find the solutions and strategies for the way we move forward. So what happens is people at the top are constantly coming up with new systems, structures, and processes that are then implemented down.

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But very few people ever feel a sense of ownership of those processes or understand the context for why those changes and new systems and structures are in place. He often describes organizations that get this right as places where the change feels as imperceptible as the daily growth of our own children.

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We need to invest far more time and energy in helping the people who work with us and for us to become more connected into the idea of their context, roles, purpose, and opportunity to be part of an action research based organization. We really appreciate your rating and reviews, and those reviews and ratings also help others interested in the learning business find this podcast.


  • Observation, Hypothesis, Introspection;
  • Leading for Professional Learning;
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  • Again, this is our annual virtual conference and if you, like most of our Leading Learning listeners, work in the business of lifelong learning, continuing education, and professional development, it is an event not to be missed. Finally, consider telling others about the podcast. Your email address will not be published.

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